You know when you meet someone and you feel like you’ve known them forever? That somehow through the mysteries of time, you were not just acquaintances , but great friends? That’s the conversation that I had with Tim Showalter, the man behind Strand of Oaks. He is laughing when he answers the phone. Jubilant and one might even say feisty, we talk about everything from the perfect live experience, Zach Galifanakis and nods to Neil Young. While talking, I get the impression that nothing is out of bounds. This is rare, really rare.
Today Showalter is out, not braving the cold, but defying it to slow him down.
JK: Hey man, what are you doing?
TS: Talking, hiking, playing, throwing some rocks at some ice and having a great morning. It’s freezing. I think I spent too long in the woods this morning. It’s like -5 out. I love challenging myself. I’m like, okay this is the coldest day of the year so far, I’m going out. I have windburn on my face and it looks like I have a sunburn. (Laughing) It’s like shit, I think I got frostbite.
JK: I take it cold weather does not bother you.
TS: You know what, I’m weird dude. I like it hot. I like it cold. I hate snow, well, the driving in it. That’s the only thing I don’t like. I kind of wear the same thing every day. We play Phoenix in the summertime and I always wear the same outfit. I had on my black jacket, black boots, and black shirt. People are like, what are you doing? It’s like 110°! I’m like yeah whatever, crack open a beer don’t worry about it.
JK: I like the warmer months. I think it’s because of the amount music. There’s that three month lag at the end of the year where tours stop.
TS: Yeah, everybody goes to sleep. They’re like later, I’ll see you at SXSW.
JK: You were out hiking today. Is that a commonplace thing for you?
TS: I need to get my ass out of the house, if I don’t, I just go crazy, because I’m always trying to write songs, but eventually I will write a better song if I don’t play on my guitar for 10 hours today. I need to do something else. It’s funny, I’ve been listening to a lot of podcast lately and all of them have comedians on them, and all of the comedians are just as crazy as I am. They talk about meditation and stuff. I don’t know how to meditate, but I know how to be in the woods for two hours and I’ll feel better. I don’t look at the internet, which is great. Literally, today I had the best moment I’ve had in like two weeks, because I was throwing rocks from a cliff into a frozen pond and it just sounded so cool. This is amazing. I’m not instagram right now.
JK: It’s impossible for me not to check those things if I’m around them.
TS: Yeah, I’m a victim to it. Everybody is a victim to it. I purposely don’t take my phone with me. I’m going to go away. I need to set the shit down for a while. That’s why I love playing live. Someone made a point the other day, that the one thing that the internet can never get is a concert. The internet cannot create a concert for you. There’s something social about touring; to be in room where other people are and they’re all there for pretty similar reasons. That’s why shows are just addictive for me. It feels really good. It feels normal. And if people are looking at their phones, there’s still some sort of collective thing going on.
JK: Yahoo has a concert series online every night and I have some friends who have kids and can’t go out as much anymore. They watch these shows. I find myself asking if it gets them off the same way a live show does. They’re like, well no, but….
TS: (Laughing) I know. I love watching live streams from Bonnaroo when Metallica plays. I don’t think Metallica should be played through a laptop’s speakers. It just doesn’t feel right. Am I watching Slayer through my laptop?
JK: And there’s not a way to rig that sound that you’re going to feel better about it.
TS: Definitely. Never. I’ve got my records, but the idea of what live shows feel like, if it’s mixed right and everything comes together, you’re untouchable when that happens.
JK: That’s one of the things that I love about your albums, especially with Heal. It’s that you’re presenting the sound in the way that you’ll hear it live. It’s a clean sound. A lot of people, when I go see them live, I find myself saying Man I really liked you, but I should have just not come tonight.
TS: (Laughing) I completely agree. Maybe it’s the punk rock kid in me, but I would rather see somebody fuck up live than see something perfect. I don’t want to see you play the record, because I’ve got it at home and beer is a lot cheaper at my house. And I don’t want to see five laptops. I want to see humans playing instruments. It just feels like there’s something about rock’n roll, and I know it’s a cliché, but when it’s done correctly, you’re just like, that’s why I do this. This is why I fucking love this! There is a sacred element to shows when they’re done right. I don’t know which Ween brother said it, but he was like, ‘if you’re going to miss, miss big.’ That’s exactly how I approach my shows. I’m not fucking Carlos Santana on the guitar, but I’m still going to try and shred, even if it’s not like… I’ve read the YouTube comments. I know the Guitar Center nerds hate the way a play. I don’t give a shit. People like the way I play it. (Laughing) It works fine for me.
JK: I’ve noticed that most critics are not doers. They’re professionals at commenting.
TS: I was just listening to a podcast of Zach Galifanakis and he said that right when he started, he had a talk show. Within the first day of the show airing, some critic at a newspaper just destroyed him, absolutely just reamed him. Zack Galifanakis got his number and called him and said, I just want to make sure you watch my show tomorrow night. The guy was like, what do you mean? Zach said, Well your words really got me. They really affected me and I’m going to kill myself on my show tomorrow. So tune in, because I’m going to kill myself, and thanks, thanks man. (Uncontrollable laughing) I love that!
JK: That just shows that Zach was on point a long time ago.
TS: I’m not impervious to bad criticism. If someone writes a bad review of my record, that means I’m important enough for them to make a review about. That means that I’m important enough that they’re going to waste space on their website on writing a piss poor review of my record. That means that there’s good things happening for me. (Laughing) At least they’re paying attention.
JK: Like, that’s fine. Link everything you can to me.
TS: Yeah, you’re still talking buddy. I appreciate it.
JK: You said in an old interview that you didn’t know if you’d ever play in a stadium, but you wanted your songs to sound good if you did. Now that this tour is six and a half or seven months behind you, have there been any moments where that rang true for you?
TS: Yeah, and it’s happening in every size venue that we’ve played. Some of our shows have at them, for me, a lot of people. Hundreds of people are at the show and I’m like, this is massive. I’ve played shows to 50 people, like in the Czech Republic, and it felt just as massive because people were losing their shit. That was their Wednesday night and they might have had a shitty week. When I say stadiums, I’m not trying to sound like Bono or an egomaniac. That’s the word I use, not for the size of something, but the feeling of something. We do not look like kids that graduated from an Ivy League college that are staring at their shoes the whole fucking show. We’re in the crowd. We are chugging beers. There might be 25 people at the show, but I want to give them that same feeling that I got when I saw Eddie Vedder climb the rafters. I’d love to take on the challenge of playing really big shows and having as many people experience it together. I think the idea of the stadium is the feeling that going to a rock show can change you for the better. Maybe that’s naïve, but I believe it.
JK: I’m 100 percent with you. Pearl Jam is my favorite band.
TS: Oh man, same here. I love that band.
JK: I re-watched when they won their first Grammy. Eddie said something to the extent of, I don’t know what this means, but I think it’s stupid.
TS: Exactly. I don’t care. Let’s just play a show. That’s what we’re supposed to be doing.
JK: He was way more hung up that they had put them at the table beside Ticketmaster. Like, aren’t we suing them right now?
TS: I love those guys, because I always feel like guys like Pearl Jam could just retire to their golden condominiums in the Bahamas somewhere and not give a shit and just be rich and fall asleep on their pile of money. But they’re still going out and playing amazing concerts. They’re still trying to push the envelope and inspire people. I’m not inspired by Pavement. I love the band, but I’m not a slacker. That might be the only thing anybody can say to offend me in criticism; to say look at this slacker college rock. I’d be like, oh my god, that is the worst thing I can imagine.
JK: The next Pavement is here!
TS: (Laughing) No it’s not. Don’t call me that. I grew up in a town that had no shows, so the only exploring I had was on MTV, Alternative Nation and 120 Minutes. Fucking Jane’s Addiction cares about what they’re doing. They go out there like this is a show and we’re about to melt your fucking face. It’s not like, I don’t care man. I don’t care if I tune my guitar that well or whatever.
JK: I read something about Wayne Coyne from the Flaming Lips. He said something to the extent of he was out there loading the confetti cannons with confetti. Basically, if it was happening at the show, he was a direct part of it.
TS: I was scared of my own skin for years. I think the part of this tour that’s been so fun is I just stopped giving a shit about those hangups. I’m just going to do this. I remember one night I walked off stage saying, God, my back hurts. I lifted up my shirt and there is this giant bruise down the whole lower of my back. I was like, man, what happened? And my bassist said, Tim, you jumped onto the ground. You were jumping in the air and then just falling onto your back. (Laughing) I was like, I don’t even remember that. That must have been fun, I guess. I hurt now, but worth it.
JK: And now, you’re like Eddie climbing on the rafters. The people at that show will say, I don’t know what came over him. He was diving on his back.
TS: I want people to know that I have an integrity meter in my life that I put people up to, and a bullshit meter. I need people to know that I mean this. I need them to know that I’m not pulling one over on them. I’m the slightly overweight biker looking guy and I’m aware that. I’m aware of how I look. I’m going to be super sweaty and I’ll probably be a little drunk by the end of the show. I think (playing concerts) has helped me enjoyed life again. It’s helped me be happy, which is hard-to-find sometimes. I love making records, but making records for me is very solitary. It’s made by myself, maybe with the producer, playing a lot of instruments and smoking piles of marijuana in the studio somewhere, getting paranoid and not going outside. It’s fun to do, but then you finally get to go out there and share the songs, that’s when you can see people reacting in person. I’m horrible with email and all that other stuff. When I am at shows, people come up to me and say, ‘I tried to email you’ or ‘I sent you a message.’ I’m like, I don’t give a shit, we’re talking now. Let’s just talk now. I don’t know what Twitter is. I don’t know if I should’ve done something on it, but you’re here and we’re having a discussion together. That’s what I want to do.
JK: Yeah, just say it now.
TS: What did you want to talk about? I’ll talk to you now. Let’s talk about records or something. Just do it now.
JK: It comes through very clearly on this album. You seem to be having more fun, to be invigorated. It’s more playful.
TS: Yeah, and thanks for saying that, because everybody saying his marriage fell apart. He’s a drug addict. I was all those things. But I didn’t make an Elliott Smith record. I made a record that you’re supposed to enjoy physically. It is playful. I did some wacky ass shit on this record and I had a lot of fun doing it. Granted, I’m singing about some horrible topics in my life, which sucks, but it’s a multilayered kind of thing.
JK: It could’ve gone the opposite way, where you crawled into a hole. You said this is going to come out of me and when I look back on it, it’s going to be like, I did this, I got through it, not I laid around in it.
TS: I’m guilty of making records in the past that are exactly like that and I can’t listen to them anymore. And they’re good records. I was just fucking sad. I should’ve just seen a therapist man. It shouldn’t have made a record. I don’t know if I’m morphing into some kind of Andrew WK figure, which wouldn’t be the worst thing. I’m writing songs for my next one that’s even more of that feeling. Let’s make this worth it. Life sucks so bad. Let’s have a moment where doesn’t suck so much or try to make a moment like that where you can escape it a little bit.
JK: You did that “Same Emotion” video and it feels like “From Dusk till Dawn.” Where is Quentin Tarantino? Something is about to happen.
TS: (Laughing) I loved making that video because I was by far the ugliest person. I’ve never been around this many beautiful people in my whole life. I feel very ugly. I think some of the people in the video didn’t know that I was the guy who wrote the song and they just thought that I was the janitor that was hanging around. Who let this guy in here?
JK: They’re like, this is my career. I’m an actor. And you’re like, I know, I hired you.
TS: I’ve just got to joke around. Sometimes I’m an extra on Breaking Bad. I’ve just got that look man.
JK: I’ve heard you talk about people telling you who you look like. I’ve got long hair and a beard too and find that the second you look that way, it happens all the time. And I’m blown away, because sometimes it’s a new comparison, like, I’ll remember that one.
TS: It was funny. I’ve always looked the same, but it shifted with popular taste. When “The Hangover” came out, I was Zach Galifanakis. Everybody was like, hey Hangover. I’m not getting a lot of Brad Pitt references. I’m getting more, you look like my uncle who went to jail. Yeah, I do. I’m big with women between the ages of 49 and 59 because I look like all the guys they dated back in 1978. ‘Look at this hairy weirdo. I probably had a boyfriend that looked like that.
JK: My first stepmom, because my dad doesn’t settle easily, was pretty drunk one day and told me that the music she was into was made in the 80s, because those are the bands that she got to go see. I asked her to tell me who she saw. She told me that one time she got to go backstage and that sometimes you do things to get backstage that you weren’t expecting. I thought, wow stepmom, what concert were you willing to do these questionable things to get backstage? She said that it was Bryan Adams.
TS: (Laughing) I was wondering if it was The Doobie Brothers or something like that. That saxophone player is not handsome at all.
JK: (Laughing) I picture them blowing their way backstage and never meeting Bryan Adams.
TS: Yeah, they blow the keyboard tech or something like that. He’s like, yeah I just plug in the synths. That’s my job. They call me Red. That guy had the best night is life. He probably still talks about that. Dude, we played this concert once and it was great!
“JM” sounds a lot like “Cortez” by Neil Young. A 7 1/2 minute song is very uncharacteristic of your style, especially with a three minute guitar jam to end the song.
TS: “Oh yeah! I actually play the riff from “Cortez” in homage to him. I’m like, I can play three chords and the three chords I learned are the chords from “Cortez.” So I might as well give him props where credit is due, like here it is, here’s the riff. I don’t do it on the record, but live I play the solo because we get so deep into the jam that I’m like, I’m going out “Cortez.” I love going to places in the country where weed is heavily smoked. We played San Francisco and the second the jam started, it was just a cloud of marijuana lifting to the heavens. This is my kind of show! I’ll watch a YouTube video and be like, we played it for 17 minutes? What the fuck? This is crazy.
JK: That’s what a jam like that does. There aren’t a lot of changes. It’s just repeat over and over.
TS: That’s my favorite. I could write a song like that for every record because it’s just so fun to play. I’m of the weird class, where I get excited when I buy a record and I’m looking through the track lengths and there is a 19 minute long song. I can’t wait!
JK: You always know that the artist had a fight to get that song on the record. Somebody was sitting there saying, get this down to two and a half or three minutes.
TS: I definitely fought to get “JM” on the record. I was like, well if you don’t want “JM” on the record, then there is no record. So which one do you prefer, having no record at all or “JM?” It was funny, a friend of mine said after he heard “JM,” good job, but are you ready? Ready for what? To close with this for the rest of your life? Oh shit, that’s probably true.
Strand of Oaks is in Nashville, TN, on January 18th at 3rd and Lindsley, in Chattanooga, TN, at Track 29 on April 16th with Jason Isbell, in Charlotte, NC, at Tuck Fest on April 17th, and in Colombia, SC, at The Music Farm on April 18th. For a full tour listing, check out Strand of Oaks.
